As a quick recap, this seems to be the spring and summer of sorting out everyone's health issues.
Sophie's included. I'm pretty sure I mentioned we've been treating her for ulcers (under vet guidance), on the assumption she had them.
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| You get a bunch of June 2023 Sophie pictures with no particular relevance to the topic |
Her weight and coat looked great this past winter and spring, but she's always been a lot tougher to keep weight on than you'd think a pony has any right to be. We discussed the possibility of ulcers Feb 2022, I think, but she tested low in Vitamin E, and when we upped that there was enough improvement I didn't follow through with anything further. Vet was comfortable with that choice as well, since S always has either grazing or free choice hay and generally lives a pretty low-risk-for-ulcers style life.
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I still kept wondering off and on, though, so recently when she started getting downright nasty about blankets and tack I thought it might be time to investigate. My feeling was good enough for the vet, so we started treating her.
Yesterday marked four weeks, so we scoped her. I was feeling somewhat positive because she's been way better and less stressy about life in general and she looks dapply-y and fantastic. But also it's summertime out there and maybe she's just warm and sleepy and happy out grazing growing grass? :)
Because yeah, there were/are ulcers. Most are nearly healed, but there are a couple of awful looking ones still there that make me feel like the worst person ever.
I've for sure got impatient and quite strict with her over all the ear pinning and bite-y faces and leg waving when she absolutely had every right to tell me to f off with my saddle and riding schedule. It doesn't look comfortable now, so I can't imagine what it looked (or felt) like before treatment.
The part I really beat myself up over was that after confirming her feeding and lifestyle and history, the vet's opinion was that there's a good chance she has always had them/came to me with them.
So, lesson learned. A lot of the 'mare' and anxious behavior and things I just thought were part of who she is, have likely been pain related all this time.
Also, ponies. Dappled and round and sassy, the generally accepted sassy part of the pony stereotype might be the only hint you get that they're actually not feeling so great.
So, we move on to 4 more weeks of gastroguard and sucralfate, but the vet seems optimistic we'll be OK after that.
Been there, done that, have the "I feel like a terrible horse mom" t-shirt and hat. Nay has been extra grumpy lately so I've been wondering if he's ulcery again too. My issue? Ulcergard/gastrogard completely messes up his hindgut so... yeah. So, I'm playing around and seeing how he handles stuff.
ReplyDeleteSorry he's dealing with that again too. In general I hate that there seems like no guaranteed way to stop them from recurring.
DeleteTotally been there. I didn't get my anxious, hard keeper, showing, traveling, moving horse scoped for wayyyyyy too long. I haven't gotten him scoped again after our first recheck so I can't vouch for how well the KER fish oil product is working as a preventative. But I definitely understand the frustration about long term options out there. I did find one study that said feeding some preserved forage (ie hay or hay cubes) actually had a benefit over 100% pasture.
ReplyDeleteI've been giving her alfalfa cubes twice a day and before I ride because I just had a feeling (and it can't hurt!) It felt like such an invasive procedure for her that I'm not in a hurry to repeat it - I totally understand anyone who chooses to just treat for symptoms. Like everyone here says, it's such a vague thing to pick up on. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that I can see I should have done something sooner, but also I admittedly wouldn't have been shocked if the scope was clear too.
DeleteAlso been there. Don’t beat yourself up, ulcers can be sneaky.
ReplyDeleteThanks! I was saying to my husband that the actual procedure of being able to look inside, and having options to treat her is just really interesting and fantastic and such a positive thing...but also the fact we were looking inside my pony at some nasty ulcers made me feel sick and guilty.
DeleteI wouldn't beat yourself up. We can't see inside their stomachs (and to do so is invasive and expensive)., Very often the only clue is subtle behavioral changes that could be attributable to many causes. I do think that vets and owners often under-assume the presence of ulcers. People associate loss of weight, poor hair coat, lack of appetite and colic episodes with ulcers. My experience is that equines can have really bad ulcers without any of those symptoms, in fact much more subtle, behavioral changes only.
ReplyDeleteI so wish I had pushed for her to get checked or at least treated when I first got her. The vet at the time wasn't convinced and it's unfortunate that I was so willing to just accept the 'sometimes my mare is a grumpy mare' theory.
DeleteI agree with Shauna, and I think it's the easy keepers that suffer the most. The Welsh Cob that got me into Cobs passed away from ulcers so bad his stomach perforated. No outward symptoms at all until the terrible pain from the perforation, and he lived the most perfect life a horse could live, on a heritage farm in New England as a pasture pet. The way I think of it is that since we've bred them to be easy keepers, I can't give Connor enough forage to neutralize all the stomach acid he produces or else he'd get fat. It's why I was so excited about how well Vitalize Alimend and Gut-X worked for Connor and Aeres, after reading the study on it, and I've kept him on it permanently since. Either way, don't beat yourself up. I feel like the science is very incomplete on ulcers and gastric health in horses.
ReplyDeleteAs we were having Sophie scoped, I was looking over at Bridget...wondering. Because like you say, despite my best attempts with slow feed nets etc she still can't have food in front of her 24/7. On paper she'd be the far more likely suspect to have ulcers. I'm going to look into those two supplements, thank you for the recommendations.
DeleteHere's a link to the study. It's small, but fascinating. Basically this class of supplements creates a physical barrier between the stomach acid and stomach lining, which both allows ulcerated tissue to heal and because there are no side effects and you can keep them on long-term, they can also prevent ulcers from occurring. I have had Connor on two pumps a day for years now and haven't had to treat for ulcers once since I started. And Aeres overnight turned into a totally different horse on it, to the point that the barn staff texted me about it.
Deletehttps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjjoO6Xjun_AhWQlYkEHbR4CbQQFnoECAsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hagyard.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F04%2FPolysaccharide-Treatment-Reduces-Gastric-Ulceration-in-Horses.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3d1zxDRkgjIiM38VkYDt68&opi=89978449
My post about it: https://www.cobjockey.com/2021/03/product-review-vitalize-alimend-for.html
Man, that is a tough situation. Here is a link to a blog post that might give you some perspective. The writer, a horse professional and blogger, writes about her horse that both she and her vet were sure did not have ulcers. Turns out, the horse DID have ulcers, much to everyone's shock and dismay.
ReplyDeletehttps://annablake.com/2023/06/09/nube-ulcer-nostalgia-and-what-i-didnt-know/
Glad to hear Sophie's prognosis is positive!
Whoops! Technical difficulties here. Here is the rest of my comment- I imagine most of us horse people have had a similar experience in mistaking pain signals for illness signals. I have embarrassingly had more than one. With the same horse. I reprimanded him for breaking gait as we practiced loping circles. I thought he was acting lazy and was annoyed with his disobedience. Turns out he spiked a high fever the next day and was diagnosed with an infection. On another occasion, he was having trouble keeping up on a very hot day at a clinic. The clinician didn't seem to think he looked overly heated so I kept riding. Something in the back of my head told me eventually that I better get off. I untacked him and took him out to hose down. It took forever for his panting to stop and his breathing to return to normal. In retrospect I believed he had experienced heat stoke. That horse lived with me for 17 years until the age of 27 so he obviously survived those big errors in judgement, but I understand the guilt of feeling like a negligent horse owner for not understand what was happening and for continuing to push for obedience when it turns out disobedience wasn't the issue at all.
ReplyDeleteI feel like it wasn't so long ago I had a trainer basically tell me she didn't care if her horses were sick or lame, they had no excuse for not being obedient in the one hour a day she rode. And I feel like most of us at that clinic just went "OK" and kind of filed it away as not feeling "right" but also she knows what she's doing better than us! Thankfully I don't think that would fly today. I'm always learning!
DeleteLive and learn. I can't tell you how many husbandry or training methods I have done in the past I regret now. I would have acted just like you, thinking S was just marey. Know better, then do better is all you can do IMHO.
ReplyDeleteEverything always seems so clear in hindsight. Just yesterday I was like "those spare pallets can't be stacked there!" And my husband thought I was being super fussy because it looks totally safe and fine and it's just for a couple of days. But no, I had a curious horse knock them over and drag a couple out into the field once. He got his foot stuck in one and ended up with a pretty serious cut. So yeah, another lesson learned the hard way.
DeleteYou're not alone. When I still managed yards for other people, I had an obese Friesian gelding who lived the perfect life (literally---those horses only ever went without hay when they were actively being ridden, which was mid-level dressage work five days a week, and he hadn't competed in years) who had Grade IV ulcers. He was shiny and dappled and I always struggled to keep weight OFF him. We only found them because he colicked and they scoped for gastric impaction. Found ulcers instead!
ReplyDeleteSame thing happened to my friend and her lovely mare...very few indications both health wise and under saddle, until she colicked badly and they investigated further. It's just wild how common they are
DeleteCatching up but so glad you are figuring Sophie out and if only she could have talked :)
ReplyDelete